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[DEWALTDUDE]

Well we were able to get our hands on Milwaukee's new M12 Red-lithium. Surprisingly the batteries extra magical power does not come from harnessing the essence of Unicorns!




The top secret RedLithium is made by.... Samsung. INR18650-15R cells to be exact. A few other tool manufactures use Samsung INR18650-13Q cells. Difference between the two are not 100% clear at this point in time (no specs available) The graph below show's some spec's for a -15R, and -15Q, (18amp vs 25 amp) specs will most likely be the same as the -15M. Were not sure what the letter M is for. Only thing we know for sure, the battery has gone from 1300mAH to 1500mAH roughly a 15% increase.








Here are Samusung's specs:





So we will be testing Milaukee's new M12 REDLITHIUM against it's current battery, oh and of course DEWALT's 12v Max.

 
REDLITHIUM Advantage:

Performance Up to;

· 40% More Run-Time
· 20% More Speed
· 20% More Torque
· Fade Free Power

Durability;

· Operates Down to 0°F/-18°C
· Runs 20% Cooler
· Up to 50% More Recharges
· No Memory Effect

Ok so we wanted to see if RedLithium lived up it's claims!

* 40% more runtime & 20% More speed/torque?
We decided to test Milwaukee M12 regular lithium against M12 RedLithium. This is much like our other tests. We let the batteries charge 24hrs, used a new Dewalt 1/2" Spade bit. We used the same 2x12 Douglas Fir lumber.

After testing Dewalt 12v Max against Milwaukee M12 we discovered that Milwaukee cannot handle being pushed hard. The electronics are too temperamental. You'll notice we go much slower, and do a short pause before drilling the next hole. Or at least we tried! We were able to get a more realistic test on runtime.

After the testing we discovered a 30% increase in runtime, and slightly higher speed. We also tested some different torque applications off camera. We did see a slight increase in torque.

* Runs 20% Cooler?
At the end of the video we test the temperature after the batteries sat for about 3 minutes. This allows the shell to absorb more heat from the cells for a closer internal thermal measurement. Not exact science here, but close enough.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5KQPUjEe8ao&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/5KQPUjEe8ao&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0</a>

* Operates Down to 0°F/-18°C?
We put both batteries in a freezer for approx. 6-7hrs. We tested the outside temperature, then began drilling. Both drills were sluggish, but after several holes the battery warmed up and started to preform a little better. Did they both work at 0 degrees? Sure, but the Milaukee's REDLITHIUM preformed worse than the standard Sanyo batteries in Dewalt's 12v max battery. Nothing significant here worth touting about.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/52qmiwIuCqA&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/52qmiwIuCqA&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0</a>

Last but not least we tested Milwaukee's REDLITHIUM against Dewalt's 12v Max lithium. Unlike the Milwaukee vs Milwaukee test, we pushed these guy's hard and fast. Again, Milwaukee's lousy electronics got in the way! Electronics shut the tool down and would not allow us to continue until things had cooled down. If you compare our previous MvM test, the Milwaukee did drill 74 holes, while Dewalt drilled 70.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/_lJq3suTsBQ&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/_lJq3suTsBQ&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0</a>

Final thoughts;

Does Milwaukee's REDLITHIUM live up to it's claims? I would have to say YES. In more normal day to day work I would have to say the 40% increase in runtime is not too far off. It did pump the tool with a higher voltage, and more amps. Which in turn allows for a increase in torque and speed. Did the tool preform under freezing cold tempratures. I'll leave that one up to you to decide. I have no way of testing a 50% increase in cycle life, only time will tell.

It's sad that all this hype add's up to a tool that can almost compete with Dewalt's 12v Max! What do you guy's think?

[toolnut]

I think a 40% increase is very good for Milwaukee. I feel the 12V Dewalt is just too bulky. In comparison to the other companies in the 10.8v-12v, the Dewalt is much larger. The idea of the sub-compact tools, for me, is to be as small as possible. The Dewalt does have nice power and seems to be capable.

[DEWALTDUDE]

Are you talking about Dewalt's 12v NiCd or the 12v Max Lithium tools? If your talking about the 12v Max tools, it's pretty obvious you've never put one in your hand! 12v Max is light years ahead of any 10.8v/12v lithium in terms of ergonomics and balance!

[golden valley const.]

Thank you for being the first to do such a test.  I've been intrigued by these redlithium batteries.  Next summer I may be able to contribute a comparison between M12 and 12V Max in a more controlled environment:  Metal roofing screws.  Drilling technique can't really be varied, so it's a really fair test.  Always the same thing, #14 screws through 29 gauge metal into OSB, all fairly consistent density, and always just drilled until it fully sets.  No stalling, over-working, etc.  like can happen with spade bits in varied wood.  For the roofing, 12V tools are barely sufficient, but the light weight is awesome and the added power of the 12V max might be just the ticket.

[andron]

New member here with an observation:


the milwaukee shutting off during high load is not a bad thing since it will lead to the cells having a longer life.

If you continuously drain a battery at or near its`maximum rate you will reduce its`life, plain and simple.  I am not saying that the dewalt batteries are going to die quickly: Dewalt may have higher quality cells in its`batteries or more efficient circuitry in the drill that allows for a higher discharge rate.

BTW great information and great forum you guys have here. I use milwaukee M12 and Makita but find myself coming here very often for good information.

[DEWALTDUDE]

I understand exactly what's going on with the drill. I'm just trying to illustrate what WOULD happen if you pushed these drills a little harder than normal ideal conditions. When you push a tool to it's limit's you can generally find who designed a tool to handle abuse.

Thanks for your observation. What do you think of your M12 line thus far?

[andron]

I love the M12 Radio and impact driver but wish the hackzall had a bit more power (red lithium XC?)

would i buy again? now that the 12V MAX line has come out  it is not so clear. the dewalt has that lovely LED light, 3 led`s on the impact, feels great in the hand, has more power... there is a lot of positives for the dewalt but it boils down to the selection of tools for the milwaukee battery system. so i would buy into the milwaukee system again.

[andron]

I know you are closing down the site but here's an update.

i bought the m12 hammer drill kit to try out and did not like it at all. it was well engineered, power was OK, had the same light stay on for 10 sec like the makita etc. but it was just too bloody expensive for what you get and it was not that much smaller than my makita drill. for $10 more than the m12 hammer drill i was able to buy a makita hammer drill, skil saw and recip saw sans batteries. so sorry to milwaukee but i returned it and bought the other tools instead.

one sentence review: great but too expensive.

[TerryWills-KMS]

I'm going to be honest, I really like the 12V Max DeWalt tools, but I fell in love with Bosch's newly redesigned drill (PS31-2A) and impact (PS41-2A).  They are both so small, and so powerful.  The 3/8 drill is by far the smallest 12V Lithium Ion drill out there that I've seen.

DeWalt hit a home run with ergonomics.  I think Bosch for my hand was a 2nd but I chose Bosch because of it's size and build quality.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[cyclone700]

Hopefully you have better luck with your Bosch drill than I did.  I used on one project and the chuck started to wobble and I couldn't keep drill bit tight either.  Exchanged it and had the same problem with the new.  It also seemed kinda loud as well.  If you need the compact size and power of the Bosch, it's a great drill.  I returned the Bosch and bought the Dewalt 12V max drill and impact combo.

[DEWALTDUDE]

....They are both so small, and so powerful.....


Anyway, my 2 cents.

Dewalt's 12v max impact still has more torque than the PS41. The PS41 has 930in lbs, Dewalt has 950. As far as length goes, Dewalt is still using a canned motor in the 12v max making the head longer than Dewalt's 18v DC825/6/7. If Dewalt does a 2nd gen like Bosch has, and uses a frameless motor like it's big 18v brother, then the length will shrink dramatically, as well as a boost in power.

[Tool Guru]

I love tools and am always interested in new technology.  I heard about Red Lithium and was excited, specifically about the temperature claims.

They put on an event recently which I attended.  They had two demo stations set up. 

One was a freezer with a sawzall in it and a couple 18V batteries.  A Digital thermometer was giving the reading of the freezer.  The freezer was reading -22 Celsius.  They took the sawzall out of the freezer, put on a battery and passed it around.  The tool and battery were absolutely rock solid freezing cold.  Then they cut through a 2X8 with no difficulty.  Needless to say everyone was pretty impressed.

The other demo was a drill driving an spade bit into some thick OSB.  They showed the power difference between regular lithium and Red Lithium and everyone was impressed.  Then they put the Red Lithium XC battery on the drill and it performed even better.

I think that if you want to see a good test of what a line of tools is capable of doing, you should really be showing a video of what Milwaukee with an XC battery vs DeWalt with their battery.  Until DeWalt offers one, it's clearly a competitive advantage.

Another reason why everyone is the room was impressed was because they had displayed their entire 12V tool line.  Most of the group were plumbers by trade, but there were electricians, HVAC/R techs and general construction guys in the room too.  Seeing the full offering was really impressive to us and a huge reason why I don't think that, at least at this time, I could ever see myself switching brands.

[DEWALTDUDE]

Milwaukee's Red-Lithium is simply a Samsung battery that any manufacture has access to use. It's not exclusive technology to TTI. They use the same battery in their Ridgid line and they call it Hyper-Lithium. Simply put, it's a battery with a clever marketing spin.

Pretty much TTI is saying, hey gang sorry about the original batteries we dished out..... here is a battery we should have used first go around.

[Tool Guru]

If TTi puts the same good technology into the Ridgid Hyper-Lithium battery so what?  This a good thing that they're adding fuel to the competitive fire. 

I'm looking to see how other companies respond with new innovation too instead of just slagging what's an obvious improvement.

[DEWALTDUDE]

I'm trying to make a marketing point.

Your absolutely right! It is a obvious improvement!