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« on: July 19, 2011, 06:42:46 PM » |
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Wow, what a surprise! I thought I was being safe with my 36v line but nope! The new 2011 batteries have Samsung IFR18650-11P or -11Q cells. I just took my 2011 battery apart and it's 10s2p (20 cells inside!) config with 18650 cells. The good thing that they are still iron phosphate and they are also 1.1 Ah cells, which yields 2.2Ah battery, compared to A123's 2.3 Ah battery. They are labelled as 79Wh batteries, confirming 79/36 = 2.2 Ah. That's right, new battery has LOWER capacity. 0.5C charge rate for 11P hints that they are something like 10A cells and most likely have shitty cycle life (sub 800 cycles). 11P cells here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434825Specs: http://www.samsungsdi.com/battery/cylindrical-IFR18650-11P.jsp11Q cells, the only info on the net: http://certificates.iecee.org/cbtestcert/cbtestcert.nsf/b14e6aaf6eebab3dc12575690033e95c/c1c25de1f1b262d2c1257849000019dc?OpenDocumentSo, here we go, cheapen the batteries again. I just went from avid fan and promoter to disgusted customer. They didn't bother to change the model number which AFAIK breaks a bunch of regulations (UL/ULC for one!) and cheats the customer of some battery capacity. Good thing I have my stash of 12-some A123 based batteries which are still happily chugging away from 2006. I'm sure the next iteration of batteries will come those solar garden light 600 Mah NiCd cells, LOL. Well, as a consumer I feel shat on by a big corporation. Those for you who work for dewalt, please pass it on that not all their customers are dumb and ignorant hammer swingers, and actually research tools before stocking the fleet with thousands of dollars of tools. My company is growing, and Milwakee with their Sanyo cells starts looking incredibly sexy. Sad day for me today.  |
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 07:32:33 AM by DEWALTDUDE »
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 10:27:58 PM » |
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aaaaand here we go <![CDATA[<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZqPX46RX3gY&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZqPX46RX3gY&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&rel=0</a>]]> |
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 10:37:25 PM » |
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Thank you for the thread..... I am looking at alternative 36v tools. They may cost more but with 3.8mah batteries I can see why.
I am truly upset at Black and Decker.... I mean Dewalt. This may however mean they will produce xrp 36v in the future.
$200 a battery then...
And I just bought a 36v impact and the sds drill with a total of 4 batteries. I cant believe this crap. I used to brag about the runtime and power of this line.
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 05:36:17 AM » |
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I'm sure this was done by some MBA dickheads from Stanley.
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 07:45:33 AM » |
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I find it odd that these have Samsung cells. Everything else from *DeWALT for 2011 has been converted to Sanyo cells. Was your 36v purchased in OH Canada?
* Meaning 12v Max, and 20v Max.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:11:30 AM by DEWALTDUDE »
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Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 11:01:03 AM » |
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As soon as my ordered tools get here I will check the date codes and if they are newer I will pop them open. This is truly dishonest.  |
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 11:13:54 AM » |
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Well, everyone else has been doing it. Milwaukee changed the batteries 3 different times in the M line by my count, before they launched "RedLithium" which makes 4 changes. Ridgid, Ryobi, and Bosch have all made changes without any notice what-so-ever.
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Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 02:26:48 PM » |
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Well, everyone else has been doing it. Milwaukee changed the batteries 3 different times in the M line by my count, before they launched "RedLithium" which makes 4 changes. Ridgid, Ryobi, and Bosch have all made changes without any notice what-so-ever.
Yeah I understand everyone else has been doing it.... Lots of Idealists use this as an excuse. However Dewalt was already using the best batteries available. It was not as if they where looking for something to improve upon like the other companies mentioned. I took pride in knowing that I was using Dewalt tools as I was under the impression that they as a company continued to do the same, that is took pride in manufacturing to the highest standards. I had no problem paying extra to a get a tool that was a step above the rest. To see the compromising of standards to make $20-30 a battery means they are now in it for the short term. Obviously the 36v batterys where lasting to long with the original a123 cells....... I guess I can blame it on the economy |
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 03:25:16 PM » |
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Well, Must admitt that I also think it is very bad if dewalt now uses battery cells with less performance and quality. However, no real test have been done that can confirm that the new batterypack is of much lesser quality and performance. Maybee they are just as good as the old A123 cells.
However, if Aprelia is right this is a pitty. I thought that most powertool makers tried to make better and better batterypack, not going the opposite direction.
But acording to Aprelia also the new cells are some kind of iron phosfate cells so maybee you can have as many cycles as on the A123 cells.
Madtech or Kjones might have something to add about this?
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 04:05:09 PM » |
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Well, everyone else has been doing it. Milwaukee changed the batteries 3 different times in the M line by my count, before they launched "RedLithium" which makes 4 changes. Ridgid, Ryobi, and Bosch have all made changes without any notice what-so-ever.
Every change the new cells had higher capacity and higher discharge current and cycle life - they IMPROVED batteries. This does not fall under US "consumer fraud" regulations. It might violate UL but not consumer protection laws. Dewalt on the other hand used shittier cells, that already smells like class action lawsuit. |
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 05:43:07 PM » |
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wow, that sucks. i took pride in my tools knowing they were using the best battery technology available. and now to secretly switch cells to a lower quality is bullsh*t.
maybe dewalt wants users to be buying new batteries every year or two like the old crappy 18v nicads.
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 10:41:35 PM » |
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ok, so i had bought a few 36 volt batteries recently, and all were made in 2010. and what do you know, two of them have the samsung cells. when i had bought these, i had marked one of those two, since i thought it didnt have as much power as i thought it should. i then figured i'd see how the new batteries performed after a few charge cycles. well now i know why i thought that battery was weaker.
it seems dewalt changed cells somewhere between the 22nd and 30th week of 2010. you can also see that the top number format is now different on the batteries with the samsung cells.
i really want to hear what dewalt has to say about this.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 10:46:22 PM by framer »
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 10:46:21 PM » |
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What we need is much exposure of this to the public. I have already started notifying all my fellow contractors as to what they are up to. I halted my purchase of the 36v jigsaw and cutoff tool until I can check the 4 batteries I ordered. If they are a123 than I know they can last me the life of the tool, if they are samsung or sanyo I will be shopping around. This is already hurting sales. Is Dewalt listening yet? Probably not, but as soon as people catch wind that competitors are pulling away it will be over. Maybe I should go with Craftsman, I cant believe it...  |
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 04:55:34 PM » |
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Framer, will you post up some additional information comparing battery runtime and power. Maybe do a few test's and see if you really have less power using the Samsung cells, vs 123 cells. Maybe do some cross-cut's with each battery and see which one does more cut's than the other.
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Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 06:51:42 PM » |
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Framer, will you post up some additional information comparing battery runtime and power. Maybe do a few test's and see if you really have less power using the Samsung cells, vs 123 cells. Maybe do some cross-cut's with each battery and see which one does more cut's than the other.
Excellent Idea.... |
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